What Catholic Bishops discussed with Buhari on 2015 elections – Kaigama, CBCN President

President of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of Nigeria (CBCN), Archbishop Ignatius Kaigama, has opened up on the forthcom­ing general elections, saying that what the CBCN is concerned about is that things are done peacefully.

Kaigama, who spoke with AIDOGHIE PAULINUS in Abuja, also said the CBCN “would want to see a healthy competition, that the best, in terms of leaders, emerge to lead us, and would want to see that the social condi­tions of Nigerians improve and that Nigerians are happy, are free to relate in a spirit of friend­ship and fraternity with one another.”

He spoke on these and other issues.

Excerpts…

How has the conference been so far?

We thank God. Things have been moving well. It is a very interesting conference. The bishops are all here, the Catholic Bishops, and we are concerned about the progress of our Church, the growth of the faith and we are also concerned about the welfare and the progress of the nation. So, we are combining these two aspects, to pray, to discuss and to see the way forward.

What actually did you discuss about the Church?

This time, our focus is the ‘Family’ and the theme of our conference is ‘Good Families Make Good Nations.’ By implication, if we have good families in Nigeria who are faithful to good moral values and are God fearing, they are good citizens and do what is right, we are certainly going to have a good nation. And it is our desire to animate all families. Not just Christian families, but all families to see the positive role the family can play in the trans­formation of this nation. And they are the first teachers of good values. Whether it is spiritu­al or social value, the family is the first place. Therefore, we should look at it more seriously and take the duties of the families very, very seriously – the father, the mother, the children; all form a very powerful unit of the society and we believe that through them, we can bring very great changes and transformation in our society.

This is an election year. What did you discuss on the state of the nation, vis-a-vis the forthcoming elections?

We know that the elections are around the corner, the dates have been changed and all that. But we take things as they come. All that we are concerned about is that things are done peacefully. We want to see a healthy competi­tion; we want to see that the best, in terms of leaders, emerge to lead us; and we want to see that the social conditions of Nigerians improve and that we are happy, we are free to relate in a spirit of friendship and fraternity with one another. This is what we wish for Nigeria. The unnecessary political controversy and un­healthy competition are not going to help us at all. We have been doing our best to encour­age people, to educate people to see that this is not a do-or-die affair. The struggle for political position should not becloud our reasoning and we should do everything to put into correct perspective, the good moral values, social val­ues and other values that would help to propel Nigeria to greater heights. This is our prayer. Let’s get good leaders who provide good gov­ernance and the benefits of democracy will reach the nook and crannies of the nation and every Nigerian will feel the positive impact of democracy.

Is the CBCN not worried about the poll shit and the insinuation that the elections may not even hold?

Initially, everyone was wondering why the shift, but with hindsight now, you can see that there are good reasons to have allowed the shift because things are presently done with a better spirit I can say. Before the changes in the dates for the elections, it was such paranoia, a kind of apprehension in the air. You could feel palpable fear, anxiety, and people running helter-skelter, relocating to their hometowns because of fear of what could erupt during the elections. So, the shift was somehow a bless­ing in disguise namely: it cools down political tempers and people are now reflecting with more calmness and rationally assessing the situation.

We, as bishops, could see. We were able to interact with more people, for instance, the candidate of the All Progressives Congress (APC). We were able to interact with him and had useful discussions about our country, Ni­geria, and the different issues that affect the citizens of this country. And you can see that we were able to pray along with the President of Nigeria, Dr Goodluck Ebele Jonathan and we could hear from him and he could hear from us. So, these are all the positive aspects of the change of dates and I am told that more people have acquired their Permanent Voters Cards (PVCs) and hopefully, there is a better spirit and we shall have a very good, peaceful and very orderly elections.

Do you nurse any fear about the elections, most importantly, the pres­idential election?

There is always the aspect of worry and concern if people don’t do their homework. If the security agencies do what they should do correctly, honestly and with the fear of God, and the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) chairman and his com­missioners, including other officials are hon­est and do exactly what they were put there to do and there is a common platform, equal for everybody to contest election and we are not being pressurized by any group or any per­son, definitely, the elections will be done and people will accept the results. But when there are perceived injustice and the use of undue advantages over others and so on, you trigger a lot of crisis and that is what we don’t want to see or have.

The meeting between you and the APC presidential candidate, General Muhammadu Buhari recently which you called ‘Episcopal Town Hall Con­versation with Representatives of the CBCN,’ at whose instance did the meeting hold?

The presidential candidate of the APC asked to have a meeting with us. And we are good Nigerians, we are Catholic Bishops and he is also a good Nigerian. So, we say well, let Nigerians who are good and mean well for Nigeria meet. We gave a date that was con­venient for us because we were meeting in Abuja. Not all the bishops, but a representa­tive. That is, the administrative board of the Bishops’ Conference was meeting in Abuja and we asked them to come and see us and he came with his team. We had a very useful interaction, civilized interaction, friendly and charitable. That is the way it should be be­tween Nigerians and not to be afraid because of religious, political or ethnic differences.

Apart from what we read in the me­dia, what were the behind-the-scene discussions with Buhari?

There was no discussion in secret. We were very frank and I think the discussions were very cordial. We asked questions and he an­swered. We raised issues of security, issues of corruption and issues of the high tension that we are experiencing on account of the elec­tions and so on, and what he will do to make a difference if he becomes the president. We prayed that God’s will may be done.

We are not campaigning or working for any particular political party or candidate. We mean well for every candidate or political par­ty. Let them present their manifestos, let them sell what they have to Nigerians and Nigeri­ans are people of wisdom. They will know who has something to offer and when it comes to voting, they will do the right thing. Ours is to educate them and conscientize them, which we are doing very effectively.

Buhari had during the meeting said he had no personal religious agenda and he would not support any move by anybody or group of persons to ei­ther Christianize or Islamize Nigeria. Do you believe him?

I don’t have to doubt somebody of that sta­tus who is meeting a number of bishops and archbishops who represent a very significant segment of the society in Nigeria. I don’t have to doubt him at all. If he is able to articulate these before us and do so, I think it will be un­fair to begin to nurse a kind of doubt. I believe him when he says exactly what he said.

At the meeting, you expressed re­gret over the wide communication that exists between the leaders and the people, while also hoping that the conversation was an indication of the willingness to establish a sus­tainable communication platform. It was also reported that in a series of boisterous exchanges, the CBCN variously expressed concern with the falling education standards in Nige­ria, widespread corruption, violence in the polity, insurgency and the worri­some security situation in the country, amongst others. Does that mean that the CBCN is not happy with the way and manner the Jonathan’s adminis­tration has been going so far?

That would be a very negative way of read­ing the exchange that we had. Even if Jonathan was sitting here, we will be saying more or less, the same thing. And remember, we have had meetings with Jonathan at different occa­sions and we have been able, even in private, to tell him what we feel about the situation in the country. Not long ago, we had meeting over security issues with him in the Aso Villa. And again, some few weeks ago, we met and we still kept talking about how to make things better, how to improve and create harmonious relationship amongst Nigerians and that there should be unity and that Nigerians should feel safe and they should be well provided for in all forms of life whether educationally, materially and otherwise. So, talking about improving Ni­geria is not tantamount to an indictment on the government in power. For God’s sake, things could always be done better. Even if you give President Jonathan a second chance to rule this country, if he succeeds to win election, I am sure he will like to do things better and do it in a way that Nigerians will be happier. This is all we were trying to tell the APC candidate that if you want to rule Nigeria, these are the issues you must consider seriously. And if President Jonathan is here listening to us, we are going to say the same thing: improve on this, do bet­ter. And whoever God gives power to, we are ready to assure our total loyalty and dedication and collaboration and we shall work for the progress of our nation.

After the meeting, some thought the Catholic Bishops we know not to be partisan, may have endorsed Buhari. What is your take on this?

That is unfortunate because we lack that political maturity. In a civilized conduct, you are ready to engage anybody who requests for your attention. That is exactly what we are doing. But because people are politically im­mature in this country and see democracy in a different context, they misread everything. Nowadays, if you cough, they are going to in­terpret that cough as something. If somebody sees you with a broom today, they will think you are this. If somebody sees you protecting yourself with an umbrella, then you are that. In that case, there is just no way out. So, what­ever the Bishops do at this point, it is going to be misinterpreted politically. But that is not an issue to us. We do what we feel is right. We meet the people we think we have the freedom to interact with and we discuss issues that are for the com­mon good of Nigerians.

There was an allegation recently by Rivers State governor, Rotimi Amaechi, that some pastors were given over N6 billion to campaign for the president. Af­ter a confirmation from a pastor in Bor­no, the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN) reacted to the issue. What is your take on this?

It is one of the sad aspects of our political de­velopment. Why must politics be tied to money? Why should we spend so much money? If at all there is money, it should go to the poor people; it should go to people who are in distress. Right now, we have many Internally Displaced People (IDPs) and if there is that kind of money in Nige­ria and we throw it around just because we want to be elected, I don’t want to believe it. Nobody has told me that they received money of such magnitude from anybody. I am part of CAN and CAN has not told me. We are a very important aspect of CAN, the Catholic group. So, if they have received such money, we are yet to be told and I don’t believe that they will just throw mon­ey around just because they want election. If we know, then we know how to react appropriately.

Were there also moves to approach the Bishops?

About what?

About the election?

Nigerians know our stand as Catholic Bish­ops. Our law as Catholics does not permit par­tisan politics. Priests and bishops are not to en­gage in partisan politics.

If you discover that a group of priests or bishops collected money from politi­cians, what will you do?

It is immoral in the first place to collect money. For what? What work have you done? You need to earn the money you get. But if somebody, for no just cause, comes and throws money around just because he wants election and you collect it, there is something wrong with the person col­lecting and the person giving because they don’t mean well for this country. Let us be guided by merit that somebody qualifies, somebody has the ability, the capacity to give something to Nigeria in a selfless manner.

I cited the example of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference, our leadership style. I am the Pres­ident of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of Nigeria for the past three years. I don’t have any official housing, I don’t have official cars, I don’t have personal assistants. When I travel, I go on economy class, so there is nothing spe­cial. I am always giving. When I travel, I use the money from the Archdiocese of Jos to travel on behalf of the Bishops, and to work on behalf of the Bishops. So, it is not about acquiring. It is about giving. Leadership is about self-giving and when you give selflessly, you will find that the people are happy and they would want you to be there. You don’t have to even spend one kobo campaigning because they know that your job is to give and give and not to take. Unfortunately, our politics is about taking. Taking and grabbing and misusing the resources recklessly and that is why everybody is in a feverish competition to get there.

Do you see the Nigeria of our dream becoming a reality soon?

I am a chronic optimist and I believe all will be well with Nigeria. Despite all the specula­tions, unhealthy prophecies about the destabi­lization of Nigeria and all that, I don’t believe they would come to pass. Nigerians are a very unique kind of people. Yes, we have our prob­lems, we have our challenges that could be very, very serious, but we are able to overcome them with such resilience that marvels you. So, I am so optimistic that Nigerians, despite all the chal­lenges we are facing, religious challenges, politi­cal challenges, security challenges, we are going to overcome and Nigeria will be back, healthy, strong and ready to go.

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